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	<title>Comments on: WWYD: Profiting From What We Morally Don&#8217;t Approve</title>
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	<description>We're here, We're queer, and We're not going Shopping without Coupons</description>
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		<title>By: Queercents &#187; Blog Archive &#187; WWYD: Do Ethics Have a Place in Investing?</title>
		<link>http://queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/comment-page-1/#comment-113196</link>
		<dc:creator>Queercents &#187; Blog Archive &#187; WWYD: Do Ethics Have a Place in Investing?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/#comment-113196</guid>
		<description>[...] gamut of trendy causes, from weeding out war supporting industry to sweat shops to tobacco. Nina addressed these in a post last year. Socially Responsible funds aren’t quite that dogmatic; they’ll take on a company [...]&lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-113196&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gamut of trendy causes, from weeding out war supporting industry to sweat shops to tobacco. Nina addressed these in a post last year. Socially Responsible funds aren’t quite that dogmatic; they’ll take on a company [...]
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-113196">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Queercents &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Freakonomics - The secret economy of everything</title>
		<link>http://queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/comment-page-1/#comment-102740</link>
		<dc:creator>Queercents &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Freakonomics - The secret economy of everything</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 05:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/#comment-102740</guid>
		<description>[...] “Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work – whereas economics represents how it actually does work” - Freakonomics [...]&lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-102740&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “Morality, it could be argued, represents the way that people would like the world to work – whereas economics represents how it actually does work” &#8211; Freakonomics [...]
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-102740">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Fetch Blogs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Carnival Monday!</title>
		<link>http://queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/comment-page-1/#comment-15649</link>
		<dc:creator>Fetch Blogs &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Carnival Monday!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Feb 2007 19:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/#comment-15649</guid>
		<description>[...] Carnival Monday!  Posted on January 22nd, 2007 in Fetch Blogs by The_Prof (H G Stern, LUTCF)   This week&#8217;s Carnival of Personal Finance is hosted by Jim at Blueprint for Financial Prosperity. With over 75 entries, in 3 categories, there&#8217;s sure to be something you&#8217;ll find useful (and/or fun). Our kids are pretty much grown now (okay, one&#8217;s still a teenager, but you get the idea). Still, we (they) might have benefitted from GreatFX&#8217;s post on teaching kids about money. David Maister hosts this week&#8217;s Carnival of the Capitalists. There are more than 50 entries, broken down into 6 categories. Each one has helpful context, as well. Nina, blogging at Queercents, poses an ethical question about investing in companies which engage in activities we find immoral. [...]&lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-15649&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Carnival Monday!  Posted on January 22nd, 2007 in Fetch Blogs by The_Prof (H G Stern, LUTCF)   This week&#8217;s Carnival of Personal Finance is hosted by Jim at Blueprint for Financial Prosperity. With over 75 entries, in 3 categories, there&#8217;s sure to be something you&#8217;ll find useful (and/or fun). Our kids are pretty much grown now (okay, one&#8217;s still a teenager, but you get the idea). Still, we (they) might have benefitted from GreatFX&#8217;s post on teaching kids about money. David Maister hosts this week&#8217;s Carnival of the Capitalists. There are more than 50 entries, broken down into 6 categories. Each one has helpful context, as well. Nina, blogging at Queercents, poses an ethical question about investing in companies which engage in activities we find immoral. [...]
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-15649">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: tiredbuthappy</title>
		<link>http://queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/comment-page-1/#comment-14101</link>
		<dc:creator>tiredbuthappy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 00:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/#comment-14101</guid>
		<description>(Here via Carnival of Ethics, Values, and PF)

I won&#039;t ever forget the first time this question came up, because it represented one of the first times I realized that my wonderful, idealistic, environmentalist, lesbian, we&#039;re-all-the-same-inside mother is just as hypocritical as everyone else. When I started reading about Socially Responsble Investing when I was about 20, I confronted about her investments and she basically shrugged. &quot;I need my money to make money,&quot; she said, and she left her investments in their blue-chip funds and continued to donate what I saw as guilt money to big environmental non-profits.

Am I perfect? No. When there are decent socially conscious alternatives in a sector I&#039;m invested in, I choose those options, even if it means my returns will be lower. But I also own some mainstream funds, and like one of the other commenters said, it&#039;s questionable whether my house is a completely ethical investment (my family and I are definitely harbingers of gentrification in my neighborhood).

I&#039;m also okay with tobacco, alcohol and gambling. I&#039;m not so keen on weapons, pollution, homophobic and racist policies, exploitation of third world workers, generally bad labor practices, etc. We all have our pet causes.

I do the best I can, and I try to remember not to throw stones. I still disagree with my mother&#039;s attitude about it, but I also realize I can&#039;t spend all my time researching every company I buy from and every company in every fund I own.&lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-14101&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Here via Carnival of Ethics, Values, and PF)</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t ever forget the first time this question came up, because it represented one of the first times I realized that my wonderful, idealistic, environmentalist, lesbian, we&#8217;re-all-the-same-inside mother is just as hypocritical as everyone else. When I started reading about Socially Responsble Investing when I was about 20, I confronted about her investments and she basically shrugged. &#8220;I need my money to make money,&#8221; she said, and she left her investments in their blue-chip funds and continued to donate what I saw as guilt money to big environmental non-profits.</p>
<p>Am I perfect? No. When there are decent socially conscious alternatives in a sector I&#8217;m invested in, I choose those options, even if it means my returns will be lower. But I also own some mainstream funds, and like one of the other commenters said, it&#8217;s questionable whether my house is a completely ethical investment (my family and I are definitely harbingers of gentrification in my neighborhood).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also okay with tobacco, alcohol and gambling. I&#8217;m not so keen on weapons, pollution, homophobic and racist policies, exploitation of third world workers, generally bad labor practices, etc. We all have our pet causes.</p>
<p>I do the best I can, and I try to remember not to throw stones. I still disagree with my mother&#8217;s attitude about it, but I also realize I can&#8217;t spend all my time researching every company I buy from and every company in every fund I own.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-14101">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Nina</title>
		<link>http://queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/comment-page-1/#comment-13256</link>
		<dc:creator>Nina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 00:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/#comment-13256</guid>
		<description>In this week&#039;s Carnival of the Capitalists:
http://davidmaister.com/blog/312/&lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-13256&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this week&#8217;s Carnival of the Capitalists:<br />
<a href="http://davidmaister.com/blog/312/" rel="nofollow">http://davidmaister.com/blog/312/</a>
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-13256">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Debbie</title>
		<link>http://queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/comment-page-1/#comment-12806</link>
		<dc:creator>Debbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jan 2007 22:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/#comment-12806</guid>
		<description>I certainly wouldn&#039;t be an original investor in any company of which I did not morally approve.  But most investments are bought from other investors who are unlikely to be part of the company.  In that case, I still don&#039;t invest directly in companies that strike me as overly scummy because I feel that scumminess does not make good long-term business sense.

For a while my mutual funds were all with a socially-conscious mutual fund company, but a) they&#039;ve had consistently lower returns than other options I have and b) their morals don&#039;t match mine.  For example, I discovered that they give high ratings to a company which I despise for its extremely anti-competitive practices.  This mutual fund company is still valuable because for those morals that we do share, they have a lot of clout with companies and can get them to make changes that I as an individual investor could not.

Still, I admit that overall, I am pretty good at ignoring all kinds of things of which I don&#039;t approve.  My money is invested, from most to least, in

1st) my house, which was built a little too close to the 100-year flood plain for my tastes and which requires me to pay taxes to a city which often makes extremely unwise decisions,

a distant 2nd) a small-cap mutual fund which probably owns plenty of stocks from companies doing things I wish they didn&#039;t do,

a close 3rd) my company&#039;s defined-benefit retirement plan which is fairly well run and relatively fair but which also probably invests in not-so-great companies,

a distant 4th) stock in companies I really like (I call this my &quot;play money&quot; because this seems risky),

5th) a money market account in a bank of probably typical sliminess.&lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-12806&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly wouldn&#8217;t be an original investor in any company of which I did not morally approve.  But most investments are bought from other investors who are unlikely to be part of the company.  In that case, I still don&#8217;t invest directly in companies that strike me as overly scummy because I feel that scumminess does not make good long-term business sense.</p>
<p>For a while my mutual funds were all with a socially-conscious mutual fund company, but a) they&#8217;ve had consistently lower returns than other options I have and b) their morals don&#8217;t match mine.  For example, I discovered that they give high ratings to a company which I despise for its extremely anti-competitive practices.  This mutual fund company is still valuable because for those morals that we do share, they have a lot of clout with companies and can get them to make changes that I as an individual investor could not.</p>
<p>Still, I admit that overall, I am pretty good at ignoring all kinds of things of which I don&#8217;t approve.  My money is invested, from most to least, in</p>
<p>1st) my house, which was built a little too close to the 100-year flood plain for my tastes and which requires me to pay taxes to a city which often makes extremely unwise decisions,</p>
<p>a distant 2nd) a small-cap mutual fund which probably owns plenty of stocks from companies doing things I wish they didn&#8217;t do,</p>
<p>a close 3rd) my company&#8217;s defined-benefit retirement plan which is fairly well run and relatively fair but which also probably invests in not-so-great companies,</p>
<p>a distant 4th) stock in companies I really like (I call this my &#8220;play money&#8221; because this seems risky),</p>
<p>5th) a money market account in a bank of probably typical sliminess.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-12806">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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		<title>By: Paula Gregorowicz</title>
		<link>http://queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/comment-page-1/#comment-12541</link>
		<dc:creator>Paula Gregorowicz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.queercents.com/2007/01/17/wwyd-profiting-from-what-we-morally-do-not-approve/#comment-12541</guid>
		<description>This questions always just kills me.  As someone who leaves the investing to my financial planner (I do monitor everything that goes on &amp; am in line with the strategy...I can be a money micro manager) -- I don&#039;t necessarily know what &quot;bad&quot; things company in the mutual funds may be doing.  And, there&#039;s no way I&#039;m turning to a portfolio of the &quot;all social conscious&quot; funds anytime soon.

I like to think that what I choose to purchase offsets any investing dilemmas (maybe I&#039;m just making myself feel good, who knows).  BUT, if people aren&#039;t buying their animal tested product it doesn&#039;t matter how many shareholders they have, they will have to change their stripes (pun intended, sort of).

As for #1 above, I&#039;d say bring on the smokes.  As long as there is a market for them, I don&#039;t have a problem with them making a profit.  That being said I think smoking is a choice. If you want to do it, you do so knowing the health risks.  I am VERY glad to see more and more 100% smoke free establishments. Smoke really bothers me &amp; I would&#039;ve never survived a workplace full of smoke. I can&#039;t even survive a bar full of smoke anymore, so I skip it entirely unless it is smoke free (and even then bars aren&#039;t my thing).

I like to think the power is in the purchasing more than the investing side.  If they aren&#039;t making the profits because we stop buying then they will no longer be attractive investments and/or they will need to change to more acceptable business practices.&lt;p class=&quot;top-comments&quot;&gt;Current score: &lt;span class=&quot;top-comments-karma&quot; id=&quot;karma-12541&quot;&gt;0&lt;/span&gt; &lt;small&gt;(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)&lt;/small&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This questions always just kills me.  As someone who leaves the investing to my financial planner (I do monitor everything that goes on &amp; am in line with the strategy&#8230;I can be a money micro manager) &#8212; I don&#8217;t necessarily know what &#8220;bad&#8221; things company in the mutual funds may be doing.  And, there&#8217;s no way I&#8217;m turning to a portfolio of the &#8220;all social conscious&#8221; funds anytime soon.</p>
<p>I like to think that what I choose to purchase offsets any investing dilemmas (maybe I&#8217;m just making myself feel good, who knows).  BUT, if people aren&#8217;t buying their animal tested product it doesn&#8217;t matter how many shareholders they have, they will have to change their stripes (pun intended, sort of).</p>
<p>As for #1 above, I&#8217;d say bring on the smokes.  As long as there is a market for them, I don&#8217;t have a problem with them making a profit.  That being said I think smoking is a choice. If you want to do it, you do so knowing the health risks.  I am VERY glad to see more and more 100% smoke free establishments. Smoke really bothers me &amp; I would&#8217;ve never survived a workplace full of smoke. I can&#8217;t even survive a bar full of smoke anymore, so I skip it entirely unless it is smoke free (and even then bars aren&#8217;t my thing).</p>
<p>I like to think the power is in the purchasing more than the investing side.  If they aren&#8217;t making the profits because we stop buying then they will no longer be attractive investments and/or they will need to change to more acceptable business practices.
<p class="top-comments">Current score: <span class="top-comments-karma" id="karma-12541">0</span> <small>(to vote for this comment, please visit the site)</small></p>
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