WWYD: Revealing How Much Money You Make
So how come you’ll never hear a talk-show host ask a movie star how much money she made on her latest film? Because money is still considered one of those taboo topics and it doesn’t play well on the circuit of celebrity chatter.
But what if we bring the topic closer to home. If someone asks how much you make, do you tell them? Does your answer change if the question is posed from a friend vs. a family member? If you decide to answer the money question, do you round up? And if so, by how much?
One Frugal Girl had something to say about this topic. She writes, “The topic of income is usually taboo, but I bet almost everyone has been asked about their salary at least once in their lives. In college my friends and I talked openly and honestly about money. We discussed increasing book costs, rent, and utilities. I even remember celebrating the 15 cent raise of one of my roommates. No one objected to talking about money when we were working in low-paying, part-time jobs, but it seemed no one wanted to discuss salaries when we started our ‘real jobs.’ When graduation dates neared a few of my friends discussed their starting salaries, but most kept their new incomes to themselves.”
My experience was a bit different. In my twenties I still remember discussing income with my friends. But at some point in my early thirties it stopped. On both sides: Friends stopped offering this information, I stopped asking and vice versa. I recall a close friend once mentioned that she was interviewing for a job promotion and the package was over $300,000. We never talked about income after that. At the time I felt like I couldn’t keep up (so I didn’t really want to talk about it) and perhaps, it just seemed in poor taste to be disclosing these details… even with a close friend.
Family is another story… especially my family. Maybe it’s because I grew up with lots of sisters and we shared a bathroom and nothing seemed sacred or too personal in their midst. This past Thanksgiving, one of the table topics was how much I would potentially make if I closed a big software deal by the end of the year. By the way, I didn’t close the deal in time, but thinking back, it was a bit peculiar to be talking dollar amounts with my working class brother over turkey and stuffing.
The guy has saved practically every penny earned in adulthood, owns five houses and will probably retire with more money than all of us combined. I know what he made last year and it was pretty good for a dude building bridges in Toledo, Ohio. But it’s still weird to be talking about all of this in front of my parents, the seven nieces and my small business-owning brothers-in-law. Everyone treated it like such a normal topic… my income (or should I say potential income) of 2006.
But now I’m off on a tangent with the personal commentary, so back to the question… If someone asks how much you make, do you tell them? I like how One Frugal Girl answers it. She simply says, “I make enough.”
We want to know what you would do? Please feel free to comment below.
I think a big issue is the judgement.
If you tell someone what you make, and it seems low compared to their income, you can feel less accomplished, less valued, less worthy.
On the flip side, if you share your income and it is a lot higher than the other person’s, you can feel judged for how you spend your money, or how carefree you must be, compared to someone who is struggling.
No one wants to be judged, I bet, so we tend to avoid the exact figures. Of course this plays into employers’ hands, as they can disguise serious inequities between men and women, or long-time employees vs. new hires doing the same jobs but paid very differently.
I am proud of the work I do and the money it provides our family. Even moreso, I am proud of the fact that we live as we do- frugally and with a real intent about everything we do- to have a stay at home mom available for our kids. To me, it is a badge of courage that we live on my income AND provide for savings. I have no qualms about telling people we live off $2000/month (this being after the taxes and 401k is gone). That’s right- a family of five (two lesbian moms, our 8 year old daughter, 4 year old son, and 2 year old daughter)! I compare this figure to the middle class article that’s also posted and wonder myself how we do it!
I share the good news about my raises, but I don’t really share dollar figures with my sibling and vice versa. I do tell my parents because they flat out ask what I’m making. They’re always concerned about my future since I’m still unmarried.
I don’t share my salary with my cousins (who are close to me), but we all know what everyone does for work and can look up a general salary figure anyway. No one really cares in our family since we have housewives and banking VP’s in our extended family. It’s about TCB. I think if any one of us was really in trouble, we’d probably help out. At least, I would.
I think “I make enough” is a great answer if you’re in a position where you don’t want to divulge your salary. Every family is different. I think getting to the root of why someone asks is important. If you’re family wants to know if you’re planning your future, then maybe it’s better to open up a general discussion about smart planning instead of what are you bringing home. (Because it’s not what you make, it’s what you keep, right?)
I’m with Rich on this one. I personally don’t want to be judged, and more importantly, I dislike when people ask questions that suggest competition.
Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but I like etiquette. I think it’s poor etiquette to ask someone what they make. If someone wants to disclose how much they make, then they’ll disclose it without having to be asked.
An exception here is that if someone keeps going on and on about how well they’re doing (and we all know people like that), I think it’s perfectly okay to ask them how much they’re making just so they can be quiet about it already.
You might be able to tell it’s a touchy subject for me. If anyone ever asks anymore, I just say “Well, I’m not starving; I”m not homeless; I’m not in a ton of hock. That should tell you all you need to know.”
Great question.. It is a taboo topic. It seems we only talk about celebrities (so and so’s $5 million sign on with the fancy pro sports team deal) and wildly large salaries (the Bill Gates or Trumps of the world) OR the flip side of the poor and working class being nickel and dimed. Anywhere between about $20,000 and $ millions it stays hushed.
With my family (which is basically just my parents since I am an only child) and my partner I talk pretty much exact numbers. If others ask, I tend to say “enough” or “competitive for the work I do”. If I am with a fellow entrepreneur in my community of close knit folks I may share fees (like say per client or my web consulting hourly rate), but not what revenue my business realized. If it does get to a more involved conversation we both end up rounding (over 6 figures, under $50K, etc.)
I agree with Rich, it is so relative and no matter how you slice it, someone in the conversation ends up feeling “less than” and that is the #1 problem with the power money has over us — that feeling of feeling “not enough” or “less than”. And, in reality, money has nothing to do with our real value or the fact that we are having those feelings…such is the irony of it all.
Thanks for such a great question to ponder!
Nina,
Great question. In the “world” I inhabit, however, the values are somewhat inverted.
Successful academics can be quite comfortable, of course, even if they make less than their schoolmates who opted for careers in industry, business, law and the like. When you account for the fact that we have much more flexible schedules (though, this is changing), a bit more control over our production (though, this too is changing) and must love what we do (otherwise, it wouldn’t make sense to make a career out of it), I’m not complaining about the profession’s possibilities though well aware of the difficulties less successful academics and graduate students face.
That said, the sociologist Pierre Bourdieu noted that academics tend to simultaneously eschew the logic that money equals worth. On the one hand, to think this would “debase” their loftier goals (he is critical as am I about the supposed purity of academics’ goals and intentions. They can be but so can a schoolteacher’s or a social worker’s or a lawyer’s). On the other hand, they have less of it than their doctor and lawyer friends and so tend to reveal “class” and respond to judgment by cultivating very bourgeois habits–by becoming opera buffs and gourmands. Now, that Bourdieu is talking about the French context in the 60’s-80’s for the most part is key. But, there is still something there about my profession’s almost singular emphasis on cultural capital as opposed to hard, cold money. It sounds more civilized but, in fact, it’s one of the more annoying dimensions of academic idealism. Suffering and inequality is reproduced through the daily judgments we make of others and ourselves that equate cadence, gait, dialect, clothing styles, hobbies & interests OR the size of one’s bank account with *moral superiority*. Now, that’s getting into my religious world-view and the subject for another day, perhaps.
I’m a student, where as many of my friends are well established in their respective careers. I get by with government aid (I live in New Zealand), scholarships and a part time job.
I spend a fair bit of time socialising with lawyers and accountants and so on. Income is popular topic of conversation and I actually enjoy screwing with them like so:
them: “I’m on 80, but I hope to get up to 90 soon”
me: “I’m on 13”
them: “what?! only 13 grand?”
me: “oh, I meant 13 dollars an hour, part time”
the funny thing is, that they’ll also spend their time complaining about their debt and the cost of maintaining their lifestyle, where I can honestly say I’m perfectly happy with my current situation; studying history and working in a beautiful secondhand bookstore, (check it out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mojohealy/sets/860426/)
I never discuss it. I think it even took awhile (many months) before I disclosed my salary to my partner. I think I’m a lot less comfortable talking about salary than most people. In many cases, I really don’t know if I’m making a lot less, a lot more, or just about the same as other people.
For those that feel as I do, a handy response to invasive questions: “How soon do you need to know?” (credit: my Mom)
I think a big issue is the judgement.
I agree wholeheartedly. Once someone knows how much you make, they start have opinions on how you do/don’t/should/shouldn’t spend it. There is a whole lot more to someone’s money situation than their salary.
My answer is usually, “I do okay.”
“How much do you make” is my “don’t ask, don’t tell.” It’s no one’s business and I don’t want to know either way. It’s personal, like asking someone if they are wearing a wig!
I think it’s rude!
“What did you do to your hair, Girl? It looks like a WIG!”
“It is a wig!”
“Oh. You’d never know!”
In this week’s Carnival of the Insanities:
http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2007/02/carnival-of-insanities_11.html
In this week’s Carnival of Personal Finance:
http://www.2millionblog.com/2007/02/carnival_of_personal_finance_8.html
In this week’s Carnival of Ethics, Values and Personal Finance:
http://englishmajormoney.blogspot.com/2007/02/carnival-of-ethics-values-personal.html
Yes, if someone asks me how much I earn I say: “my salary is $75k”. Most likely is one of my grad students would ask because they want to have an idea how much they could earn. I’d tell someone what my net worth is too if they ask. One friend who is poor asks this way: “are you a millionaire”. Answer: less than half way there…
PS – my brother and my girlfriend know about my blog. And I manage my mother’s money. But she never asked explicitly how much I have.